Dear Mike Vanderboegh,
Thank you so much for making gun owners look like a bunch of kooks. We have had enough trouble getting things like concealed carry passed here, and threatening to kill people would is sure to not make it any easier. And before you complain about “licensing a right,” I agree, we shouldn’t need a license to exercise our God-given and Constitutionally recognized right, but currently we could be arrested if we carry concealed, and having part of a right is better than none of it.
As to peaceful action through politics v. armed resistance, politics has been doing pretty well since, oh about the 70s. Have we lost some ground? Yes. Have we gained ground? A lot. Do we have more to go? Of course. But we have managed to go from no right to carry to at least being able to get license in most states. We have the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act that has prevented gun makes from being sued out of existence, which might not seem that big, but if you can’t get arms, you can’t keep and bear them. We have Castle Doctrine gaining steam. The Supreme Court finally acknowledged an individual right to arms. And many more. What can armed resistance claim? And remember, every loss you can pin on politics is armed resistance’s loss as well. Neither group was able to prevent it.
As to this draw-a-line-in-the-sand attitude, it works a whole lot better when we aren’t advancing. What are we supposed to do, draw the line, and dare ourselves to cross it? Not such a great plan. We should have a line in our minds past which we won’t be driven, but right now we are winning
As to threatening to kill people, you can’t kill fast enough to keep you from getting killed or arrested, and without a lot of people behind you your death will not further your cause. In fact, in the case of gun control it will probably harm your cause, as the MSM and the government will do nothing but paint you as a nut. What good are any of your rights in prison or six feet under? Sometimes sacrifice for the greater good is in line, but without backing you will die for nothing. Part of the political process is that sometimes you lose. Start killing people at that point, and that will be the end of the process for you, because you will be removed from the process, by death or by prison, unless you have enough people behind you. And 6% of gun owners probably isn’t enough to do the job.
It’s not just that we’ve lost ground (and by we I mean free people, not just gun owners), we’ve lost ground on Constitutionally protected fundamental human rights our government is forbidden to infringe upon. Not a small difference.
Mike wasn’t threatening to kill anyone. He was only warning those who would begin forcibly disarming citizens about the unintended consequences of their actions. As for who will stand with Mike? I’d imagine anyone who still understands what it is to be an American. I will.
1. I agree that losing “Constitutionally protected fundamental human rights” is quite serious, and do not mean to make light of that.
2. “There are some of us… who would kill anyone who tried to further restrict our God-given liberty.” is a threat to kill someone. (the ellipsis is “‘cold dead hands’ types, perhaps 3 percent of gun owners,” removed for clarity)
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Your “gains” are one Supreme Court justice away from being swept away, less than that in another September 11/Katrina national emergency, given the large barn door crafted in Heller by our black-robed “friends.” In any case, Heller is trumped by Olofson. If the ATF need not obey any law and are not held to account if they violate it, then laws and decisions don’t matter. The law of the jungle is the only law. Telling someone that he is about to step on a landmine is not a threat, it is good manners. — Vanderboegh.
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[quote]Telling someone that he is about to step on a landmine is not a threat, it is good manners. — Vanderboegh.[/quote]
I do the same over at TCF all the time. Heck, I made a prediction that it is likely to get violent this year between the dates of april 14th and april 20th. I didn’t do any threatening, just cautioned folks to stay away from government buildings if they could help it due to the the violence that occurs on that week between tax day and Revolution/Ruby Ridge & Waco Remembrance Days. Just a gut feeling you know. Mike is doin the same thing. Just urging caution to the dumb-asses in power.
I understand your fears, but you misunderstand not only Mr. Vanderboegh’s intent, but the state of our present condition as citizens. The Federal government has made such serious inroads into our Constitutionally _listed_ (existing separately from the Constitution or any need to justify them by any document) rights.
If you fail to see how little our rights protect us, if you can read of the Olofson case and still believe we even _have_ any rights in the eyes of the government, then I am afraid it may no longer be possible to reach you through logic and reason.
Good luck to you,
I agree that there are a lot of rights that have been removed, and most of the officials in Washington would step over the rest as quickly as they could, but there are a LOT of options before violence.
And while we have lost a lot of rights, the ones that are being fought for through the courts, elections, and lobbying are advancing. Gun rights have been getting better, not worse, for the last several decades. And it is happening because of efforts of people like Alan Gura, fighting the good fight in courtrooms, statehouses, and the halls of Congress.
There is a time for violence, but that is after the other options are exhausted. Until that time, threats are not going to affect the people they are aimed at, and will allienate the public, who we need in this fight. Remember, the 2nd Amendment can be amended out of the Constitution if enough people think that’s the way to go. And while you can claim that the right to arms is a natural right separate from the Constitution, that has not stopped many other governments in history from abridging that right.
Violence will be met with violence.
Mike, you fat asshole……get of your ss and come see me….
You are a pathetic leach on this system ,”Anti government” fat f*** that takes social security disability rather than work like a decent American. I and my family own guns, too and we will clean them and train them on you and people like you. We will be ready. My family fought for this country since the revolution. Do not think we will give it over to pigs like you.
Please excuse me, I am placing these comments in reference to Mr. Vanderboegh who needs to be arrested for inciting people to domestic terrorism. I am betting his social security disability is a mental one because he certainly looks more than healthy and well fed.
Mike Vanderboegh, like most neocon fascist types I have had the displeasure of talking *at*, is obviously a coward who fancies himself a king. Too afraid to *lead* from the front by raising his own gun and starting a revolution, while sitting back in his government-funded crappy little duplex, pleading for others to throw bricks. Takes alot of courage to incite others to throw bricks through windows. Yeah. Broken glass is SURE to cause the government to pause. Not.
I don’t know the cowardly clown known as Mike Vanderboegh, but I know many who vomit the same Timothy McVeigh-inspired nonsense. Most never served this country in uniform. Most have their own hands out to grab government funds, just as Mike is doing, while criticizing the process and the government. Most of these cruds have done little, firsthand, to add to this country in any constructive manner. Most are too stupid and selfish to contribute to the country in any significant way, nor do they see any need to. And yes, most are cowards who cling to their Bibles and their guns.
If there is a God, he has a special place in Hell reserved for these cowardly hypocrites.
How’s that government check working out for yo, You crack pots swear someone out to get you get some help no body give a flying crap bout you as long as you keep your gun carrying behind in the woods, You clowns talk about the constitution have any of you every read the thing don’t think so stop being lead around by your nose. Read up on the differences check the two out before you let someone tell you how to act. while they keep there ass in the back ground(how fair is that) Mike who are you going to fight everything that has been going on is for the benefit for this country,Question were the hell was you when Bush was sending our children to war for what or was that just something you enjoyed seeing .Funny everyone that calls for some kind of unrest thinks they are savior or hope for the country There not they murders, race haters, just people with not hearts or souls that’s way it so easy from them to stir up other less educated to do there killing. like I said Mr Government hater how’s that check and health care working out for you ,What you not rich!!
Is it any surprise that it’s some backward racist hick from Alabama making these statements? Idiots like this are a throwback in America and a the shrinking minority of the tea bagging GOP. Greedy, Old & Pathetic! Come to Los Angeles and try and throw a brick through my window you bigoted pea brained old man! You just another southern racist thug and no different then the KKK! Wither and die!
You have small minds and probably small penises, so you hold up your big guns and threaten with them.
You are not the defenders of America, you are its biggest threat.
Brave men are reasonable. You are cowards – especially you Mr. V. The kooks who follow your advice and kill are your responsibility, and you will pay for their actions either in this world or undoubtedly in the next.
Having part of a right is better than none of it. What? Are you kidding? What other rights are you willing to compromise on? How much of a right is worth fighting for? The reason we have lost our rights is because we are too apathetic and lazy to stand and protect them. If an Assault Weapons Ban passes we hear: oh well, we still have our shotguns and hunting rifles. If the NFL or MLB goes on strike all hell breaks loose and we demand that Congress get involved. Our founding fathers would be so proud.
I rarely agree with Mike but I’d die fighting to protect his right to say what he wishes. I wouldn’t even want to get a bruise fighting for the rights of someone willing to compromise them away.
Just exactly what right did Alan Gura help restore? Whoopie, the right to keep and bear arms is an individual right but you must pay a fee, beg permission from the Government and in the case of Mr. Heller, try about six times before you get your permit. Oh and don’t forget that reasonable restrictions are just fine with no definition of what might be reasonable so that every single anti-gun law must be adjudicated at the cost of man years or decades and much treasure. I’m 99.999 percent sure that that is not what the authors of the Second Amendment had in mind when the wrote the words “shall not be infringed.” I checked my eighteenth century dictionary and thesaurus and in no way could I get reasonable restrictions to match. Also please remember that aggressive resistance to usurpations of authority is not the same as unwarranted violence. It may not be the time for such resistance but when elected officials are ignoring the governed and violating the Constitution of the United States with impunity, the time is likely not far away. Compare what our elected officials are doing today with the injuries suffered by the colonies at the hands of King George III.
Mike Vanderboegh….you keep ranting about the government being tyrannical..when you goingo give up the disability check you live on? You don’t likethe government, well give back our money
“And 6% of gun owners probably isn’t enough to do the job.” Well, there are about 80 million gun owners in America (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_gun_owners_are_there_in_the_United_States_of_America). Multiply that by 6% and you get: .06(80000000) = 4,800,000 gun owners fighting for their gun rights. The US armed forces has approximately 2,475,967 troops including coast guard, reserves, and para military (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_soldiers_are_in_the_US_military). That gives US gun owners 2 to one odds, not bad in my book.
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